Enabling the Machine Economy and Decentralized Internet of Things | Frontier Talk #5 - Peter Busch

Look at the energy sector. For example, you look at smart grids that you have to perfect decentralized system with its challenges and that sector coupling, which is more, wasn't just more interesting when you combine mobility and the energy sector. Yeah. Electromobility or the cars using the smart grids and feeding them with energy and vice versa. If you look at the industry which needs the mobility, the smart city, the smart traffic, which everything comes together on one basic level.

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Frontier Talk, the world's first podcast on decentralized identity. I'm Raj Hegde. And in this little space that we've got going, we explore magic. Joining me on the pod today is a technology magician who has broken new ground in building cognitive software solutions for mobility. He is a seasoned professional with years of leadership experience in IoT development and has delivered several talks on the internet of things here to share his take on the machine economy and the applications of decentralized IoT networks, Peter Busch, DLT product owner at Bosch. Peter.

It's great to have you on the podcast. Thank you very much for having me, Raj.

Likewise, have a little bit about it's fascinating. Absolutely. Look forward to learning a lot today. So you've established yourself as a leading product strategist in the blockchain vertical. I'm curious to know what originally drove you to specialize in this space.

Yeah, right. I think that has to do a little bit with my background. You already talked a little bit about it.

Hey, I'm a computer scientist work years and years regarding the upcoming IoT technologies. And on the other side, I have an MBA. So I always looked as well on the economical side, and I'm a huge fan of business modeling and really understand where we can really earn money with that. So it was not really far to look into cryptocurrency starting with this, and then looking on the other side on the tech side of this, where we, where we've seen dice up much more than just Bitcoin or Ethereum on that side.

And so I just put these things together, like when the cryptocurrency side, like on the other economy of things, stuff aside, and it turned out that it was really a great coincidence that like four years ago, we started a very huge strategic project at Bosch called economy of things. There I'm the product owner for mobility. All the mobility use cases in Bosch would has flipped, which has to do with economy things. And so I am Brilliant. This intersection of technology and business most certainly inspires me. And we'll also deep dive on the business of the future.

Later on in the podcast, you mentioned about the economy of things project, could you perhaps double click on what the economy of things project is and your responsibilities as product owner of DLT initiatives at Bosch? Yeah. Right. So this is a quite unique enterprise that we have here at this. We have a certain kind of project at Bosch, very huge strategic ones, which deal with very, very unique new technologies where we really need much more expertise people, budget and all that stuff.

And so we discourage these, all these decentralized technologies and we thought this needs to be worked on, on a very broad basis. And those of you maybe who know a little bit about boss know that we have very, very have a very broad portfolio. And so we are very active and market leaders worldwide in mobility, in industry technologies and building technologies, consumer goods, power tools, you all know the drills and all that stuff from boss. And so it is a lot of different different areas here. And when we said, okay, one day IOT, the internet of things is really coming.

Then what we need really need is means of how can they not only communicate, which is other, how can they do business with each other? And this is really one very interesting thought if you think about, and this is my specific part in that project, when you have more vehicles in the future, which are driving autonomously, for example, through smart cities, they need to do a lot on their own. Yeah. They need to meet some decisions. What kind of road I take, what is the strongest way to the next charging station and all the other stuff that we need to have in the future?

This that's what we need technologies. We need to have a means of paying digitally for access as well. For example, this needs to be very, very secure. It needs to be safe for the drivers as well in the car and all that together. Now you need this new technologies, and this is my main responsibility.

And in this project where we have, as my responsibility in the mobility area, we have product owners for industry, product owners, for energy product on the floor, consumer goods, and not in all like almost 50 people are now working on these topics all over Bosch, which have this broad, strategic, a few on all this new technology coming up and what this, this go into our products and services for the future, Right? I hope we have a connected, safe and autonomous future. Like the background you have today behind you and for our audience.

Could you perhaps switch back and define your notion of decentralized identity? How is it different from identity as we know it today? Yeah. And actually this is our main priority these days looking at decentralized. And when I say decentralized is of course the main topic of the whole project. Yeah. Decentralized systems.

Well, it is very, very important to say that to these days, we have a lot of central or centralistic systems and therefore as well, monopolistic systems. So if you look at these platforms with, when you see, when you look into the social media areas, when you look in all the marketing audit data, which is around the all on central and privately hold platforms, and this is a huge danger for the future, because you have lots of login effects, you have lots of centralistic monopolistic effects here, and you have more and more unfair markets out there.

And when it comes to all the other devices, which will be connected, and one of the major missions of our company is all our products. All our service will be connected to in the future.

Now, not only as well exchanging data, but as well, exchanging values, then you need to have another means of a decentralized marketplace. That means no one, no one intermediary in the background has to have all the control. So all the control points, which are there on are the critical ones, when it comes to exchange of identity, where you have to authenticate, authorize yourself, to consume in any service in the internet of things, there you need a really safe and secure means of identity. This is for my means today, not possible on the central systems. Of course they are trustful ones.

They are really, they promise you everything. However, as we all know things happen, and then you have breaches, then you have hackers. Then you have maybe as well, other interesting business models on the other side here, which he was our data for anything else, therefore we need some decentralized system. We need another covenance here as well. Now we need to be able to have control of our own data, but as well, have the fair markets where other control their data and come to a fair exchange. And this is something which is happening on decentralized systems.

And therefore, of course you need disinterested entities, Right? For our audience, be sure to stick around to the end of this part, because we will explore platforms and its implications on a wide range of industries later on a follow-up to your, your point in the last episode with toxins, we, we discussed issues about the identity status quo, referring to centralized federated identities. How do you see it, this confrontation between centralized and decentralized forms of identity playing out? Is there room for coexistence? Definitely.

I think so, because when I talk about decentralized or the importance of decentralized identities, and I talk about the areas where we definitely need these, when it comes to security, safety, critical systems. So we definitely need this descender assistance, which might get a little bit more, more technology complicated maybe, and as well, not there yet. So we have to develop that. And so we have to live of course, with the central identities these days, but the need to have the need to be a co-existence because of course you have still several platforms, which makes absolutely sense. Yeah.

We have these cloud platforms and though decentral identities and some places make sense. However, as I said before, we need to have a very good, smart coexistence of both areas, Right? We are surrounded by a proliferation of, of machines and devices. And as a result of, of that, there has been quite a lot of talk about this concept called machine economy, which sheds light on how machines will interact and transact with each other. Your toaster could interact and transact with your fridge and so on and so forth.

So, so I'm curious to know what could this machine economy look like? Well, it really makes sense to talk about economy of things like economy of machines is when you look in the industry, when you have to optimize your machines and really you have some kind of communication, what kind of raw materials do I know? What about the quality of the, the last serious of my products? What happened there? And so it happened to be that I was in my former life. I was a six Sigma black belt right there. We looked a lot on the quality on the measurements of quality.

And so how can you really use the statistics? You have to find out where are the best procedures, where are the problems, where are the failures? And in the new days, now we have enough data to do that. And then you can do it automatically, technically with mechanisms, with algorithms.

And therefore you need much data on the one side, but on the other side, you need a monetary incentives to do so when we bring that together, then machines can really talk to each other, paid each other for the services that they do now, and really use the statistics, use this new algorithms, and then we get a much better optimization of this processes without a human interactions there. Right? And as a result of this data, what are the types of business models that could be made possible by, by such a such a machine economy, Right?

In terms of business model, really, what is really interesting is that we talk about digital currencies here as well or tokens. And for example, utility token, all these other forms of digital currencies, digital money, and there as well. We are not really there yet.

However, when you look into the two of your markets, these days, what's happening with tokenization, that is a very, very new field of new ways of earning money here, because you can really sell data by data in these areas where, which is today in, in this more, I would say pre IoT world is very difficult and very unsafe and very untrustworthy. And if you do well, you will have exactly new ideas, new models, new areas, where you can do business within machines, which Paige, exactly, absolutely new business models here.

I can talk about too much about our own business model that we are developing yet because it's just too new and it's all secret how we own market. All right? And I'd like to perhaps deep dive on this, this, these two worlds, one, the pre IoT and the other, the post IoT world.

Now, now building products for a certain stakeholder requires a clear understanding of their needs. So if you are a consumer company like say Facebook or Twitter, you need to clearly understand what the needs of users and humans are.

So to say, I'm speaking about humans, we all know of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And a lot of your products are centered around machines and devices. So I'm curious to know what are the needs of machines to make such a machine economy a reality. So how do you build applications centered around machines?

So to say, Yeah, don't, don't get me wrong here. I do not talk about this absolutely autonomous systems where no human is included anymore behind any machine, any machine communication, there is a human algorithm, there's a human programming.

It, so of course we will have influences of a human interaction here where it makes sense. And as well, we have these areas of a UX user experience stuff, where you have all these interaction with humans, a way where you need one. And of course we, we are, we have to take care here.

And this, a lot of people are in the, in the communities really are saying, this will get really dystopic future. If you go only the robotic way. Yeah. And we have to avoid that. Of course. So what we are building at Bosch really is, and this is one, this is our slogan. Yeah. Technology for the user, for the, for the humans. Yeah. And so the machine on one side is really a cool thing. Yeah. And if they communicate and make patients with Jada is even better or whether the human is still in the middle of all. Yeah. And as well in the middle of the business models.

So we want to earn money of course, with this. However, we need to make the, the people in using that happy to be able to live with it. Okay. So we spoke broadly about different business models and applications potentially made possible by decentralized identity. But the question remains why now, Because the technology is getting, it's getting more advanced now it's getting developed, it's getting more mature now.

So, and we're still at the beginning of it. And what another very interesting effect now is happening that more and more companies, communities, and as well, governments learn that you can't do that alone. So more and more, the idea of collaboration comes into play. The huge movement of open source and open data comes into play. And so when everything is coming more to CUDA and work together and then exchange even more data, then you need, of course, again, this new types of governance, this new types of technologies, enabling that.

However, again, giving you a new, a new area of collaboration. And then we come to a part which we call co-opetition. So this is a, an artificial world of competition and collaboration. Yeah. First you need the collaboration work together, and then you have your own business model, your competition part of it. So if this works perfectly together, then everyone gets in a perfect ecosystem. Yeah. If everything works fine. And then everyone has his role in this ecosystem con it's money and it's money. Absolutely.

I actually wrote my thesis on co-opetition and for our audience, if anyone is interested in learning more about the role of competition in platforms, please check out the first episode of the podcast with Dr. Harry barons, where we did a deep dive on this concept.

So to say, yeah, hopefully you do great things together. So listening to your points, there is a quote from, from, from French philosopher, Paul Reelio that comes to mind where he says that when you invent the ship, you also invent the shipwreck. And when you invent the plane, you also invent the plane crash the same with electricity and electrocution. Every technology carries its own disadvantage or negativity.

So to say, which is invented at the same time as technical progress. So my question to you is what are some of the challenges you face in, in bringing decentralized initiatives to market? Yeah. Right.

That's, that's a very important point because I said it in the beginning, the first priority in our products is safety, safety of the use and safety of the inhabitant, the safety of the driver and, and things like that. So when you talk about these, these decentral automated systems, the, the, the most important part of that is the governance that it, all the rules and all the regulations, how it's going to work. And if you find out any of, any of a problem or danger in using that, then of course we have to think twice.

And we have a lot of, lot of testing, verification, validation steps, before we put it on the, and even in decentralized systems, you have a much higher duty to find out, okay, where is now because you don't have the central governance part, Yahoo does it all, but you may have a spread over different parts and even more it's you have a system, a complex system, then it's more complicated. And absolutely this is the one danger in the decentralized systems that you have to be even smarter yeah. Do with your testing and validation steps. And we are aware of that.

And we have put a lot of, lot of effort in the first steps here. Brilliant. Let's shift gears now and explore platforms and network effects. So you're developing applications for, for devices and machines predominantly in the mobility space. And the mobility industry, as you might know, is, is pretty fragmented. We have a large number of scooter operators, ride sharing platforms, car sharing platforms, all competing together in one share shed, urban space.

So to say, and with more players coming in, we also expect to have more identities that plays. So, so my question to you is what role does decentralize identity have to play in this industry? Yeah. And that's really one of the fabric parts of mine, because when you look at the, you said itself, the diffractive fragmented markets of charging. For example, in that space, when you look at the fragment that space of parking in the cities, this is a huge complex system at the moment, and you've just too much providers there.

And you can't really find a really, a very good way on how to charge your car and how to park your car and all that stuff. And now you have even more and more examples coming up in the IOT. So in decentralized systems, what you get is a new level on the internet, which how I see it now, when you look at the different levels or levels of the internet, you have another one, which is trust, which is maybe as well, the decentralized governance part and Dell, of course, you don't have really the idea of what is, what kind of decentralized governance you have there.

And then you have all the different men that new possibilities that everyone, every new provider takes the same standard assess standardized modules, standardized liberal libraries, standardized modules, or methods to use for it's for its service that you want to use. So you do not have all different providers with their own payment systems, with their own order systems and all lock in this information stuff. So we have only one standardized system. Yeah. Which use all the same. So you always look into the same system.

You always have the same payment system, of course, in the perfect world, which we will have maybe in five to 10 years. And the network's really able to do that.

However, all the stuff that you see at the moment at the market will come to what go that in one huge thing, as you can see, if you go now in the internet, now you type in your words, what you are looking at, just in the command line and your browser, and then you find stuff. When you looked at the beginning of the internet. Yeah. You had several different browsers. Yeah. You had to find your own browser or find your own search engine. You have to find, so everything was as well fragmented and you couldn't exactly know, okay. Which searches he should. I now use to find the best results.

This is one interesting thing across, okay. This goes into negative effect now because you only find that what other paid for. So this is now the negative effect of that.

However, if you look at it as a huge one standardized systems, then the fragmented status will come back to one usable system. A follow-up question to that would be where you earlier mentioned that no one wants to be a part of a, a centralized monopolistic platform. So my question to you is along the lines of competition. So is it possible for multiple parties to not just come together, but also operate in a decentralized manner?

Yeah, I think I said it several times now, governance is here that the magic work, and then you really need this regulation, these rules, which come with these different regulation styles, which are, which is built in, in your algorithms so that you really can be sure that everything is handled the way you want it. So you can work in it. You can operate it.

And, or COF course it's times there are several ones. Yeah. We not exactly know which ones is the best, which one is the most efficient one, but we are working on that as well. Right. And to add to that, Bosch is a part of multiple consortia, be it lessee, Gaia ex. So our partnerships key to unlocking revenue opportunities in the decentralized space. Definitely, As I said before, you can't do it alone anymore. And you need these communities.

And especially like, let's see like either union, which is called now, like kayaks, Katina X, or these communities only focusing at a moment at Europe, however, this need to be done worldwide in the future, or that you need a complete industry working on these standardized level. What I said, what you need to have in the internet of the future and therefore, any industry, any government needs to work on that as well. So there will be no one, hopefully no one global private company who is controlling that all the danger is there yet. That's still so a win.

I'm not quite sure how well who will succeed, but we, we hope for the, for the dependent guide. Of course, that sounds a little bit pathetically. Now.

However, we need centralized decentralized systems here to have to set markets to have this or dim possibilities, but I want you to take part and not on the control of one party and background, Right. And could you perhaps share some insider insights on, on, on the workings within these consortia? Is it more to do with, with knowledge sharing? Is it more to do with building a suit of applications that were not possible in the world that we live today? What could you, could you share some insights on, on, on what goes on?

I think one of the most interesting effects there is really bringing together all different levels of corporations here. It's very small startups. You have these little companies which make the, the, the major industrial part of a country, but you have as well, the big corporate staff, they need to work together somehow. So you have to agility. You have the very fast development on the, from the smaller companies and you have to stable, very old and very, very working in safe environments of the corporates. And this cup come together makes a really interesting fit.

Of course, it's not easy to bring these different cultures together. It makes it my dressing and myself.

I'm, I'm just developing, blending a huge project in guy X as a consortium lead. And they are already see, we have like 20 partners there from really small ones to big ones. And this is, it makes it's really fun to bring them all together, to work with them and to see what kind of different technologies we are now usable together. And the other better than interesting effect is. So it's when we as posh talk to another tier one to another supplier, then we have our lawyer with us because it's really hard to, to talk to them because of competition rules and regulations and all that stuff.

But in a consortia, you have all these regulations already behind you and you can work together. You are, you are really, that is the main focus here is work together and work on common solutions here. And it's exactly, this is what is, what is then enabling us to come up with this new technologies, new solutions, Right? So a follow-up question to your point is that new industries are fragmented and consolidate as they mature. There are multiple platforms out there in the decentralized identity space, as we just alluded to, is it a case of too many cooks, spoil the broth?

And when do you see the ecosystem eventually maturing and hopefully consolidating, Of course, there's this danger definitely. And so it's really interesting how really to work together and what comes out well, I think the chance at opportunities are bigger than the risks here, and we have to try it. And so at the times that all were that anyone could try it themselves in their own silo.

And so we really, we need to come together, but of course we had this numbers, like it shouldn't be more than 30 partners together and maybe as well, we need to have an, a really a balance of the smaller and the bigger ones and the industry and science companies and so on. So this is very important.

What the, how the set up looks like of such a community. Definitely. Okay. And how do you address the very famous chicken and egg problem in network effects? So say you're part of a consortia. Do you focus on strengthening the supply side or do you focus on the, on the demand side? Oh yeah. That's a very interesting question. Since I think everything is really about a change in decentralized systems. So we have exactly, and this is one very important part in my project.

Now we have a very interesting a, a university working with us here, talking exactly about these risks and dangerous and thinking about new roads and ecosystems. So what is really now the role in a decentralized systems? What does the governance play? What kind of role and what are really the classic roads compared with the new ones and really just a little bit soft as checking neck problem. We are set up not only developing this technology, but as well, just more importantly, how to work together with these new systems and agriculture. Yeah. And we're not sure how this will work out.

We are just at the beginning of it. Could you perhaps share the name of the university because we like to, to put such heroes or institutions at the forefront on this project? Yeah.

It's, it's a very, well-known private university. It's the sibling university. Yeah. From the boat to say, what is the English word for potency lake Constance, I think, oh, okay. Brilliant by constant Switzerland. Correct. It's exactly. It's a beautiful lake, beautiful rounding. I love to be there.

And this, this university really specialized in these economic role. What's in the role of the model, the road systems, and that we would like to be, they have a huge part is one project. And we need to look at this governance system, which is as well part already of all my project at Bosch when we looked at these typical roles. But I think together with the scientific more scientific views here, then we can go even a few steps further. Right. We also know that the university is backed by a large institution you're in Germany.

Anyways, that serves as the perfect segue to my next question, which is why should organizations take decentralized initiatives seriously? And in the case of Bosch, you just mentioned that Bosch covers a wide surface area of industries. So can decentralize identity be used for applications beyond say, mobility, what's your take on this? Absolutely. Yeah. We even started with other areas first, look at the energy sector.

For example, I look at smart grids that you have to perfect decentralized system with its challenges out there and then sector coupling, which is more, just more interesting when you combined mobility and the energy sector. Yeah. Electromobility or the cars using the smart grids and feeding them with energy and, and vice versa. If you look at the industry which needs the mobility, the smart city, the smart traffic, which everything comes together on one basic level.

So you, you need really the combination of all these industries and coming together. Yeah. So we need the interesting thing. When you look into the future, when everything is connected and we can stop this anymore. Yeah. It's not our vision that we only want to connect it. It's already happening. And even another very interesting point here is when we get more and more intelligence of like AI machine learning stuff and all of that, this even needs more controlling and more governance as well. Yeah. So this is the, put some, some more level of challenge in it, I guess. Right.

And do you think there is a potential marriage on the cards between say blockchain or decentralized identity and AI, are they closely interlinked? Absolutely. Right. Yeah. There are already a company out there who are actually doing that. Yeah. Brilliant. And so this is really so interesting because when you look at these decentralized systems, you need, of course, some kind of smart systems using and controlling and managing data, which is floating around and as well, where to use which node in which governance and talk about tokenization. Yeah.

This is very, very complex areas, as well as one very important thing here, when you talk about, oh, this could be a known podcast. Talk about collaborative learning, for example. Yeah.

There, you have really lots of new technologies, interesting things where you learn out of mass of data, use these, learn stuff and use it for your systems to develop them even further and get new, new connections and new possibilities to do stuff out there. Right. Could you perhaps double click on this concept of collaborative learning and perhaps if you could apply it to your own experience at Bosch, when it comes to say onboarding new employees or building a culture around innovation and getting employees up to speed on decentralized identity, could you share your experience?

Yeah, exactly. When, when I say collaborative learning, I really mean not the human side of it, but more the machine, the algorithmic side of it. So look at the, the smart charging areas. So where you need to find the optimal route from point a to B, there, you need a lot of, a lot of new points of knowledge. What is not only the shortest way, but maybe what is the traffic undergoing? What is the specific construction site situation there? What is the price effect there and so on and so on.

And so if you have always this very interesting information and learn out of it, how these develop through the week, through the month or the year, and then you learn when is what the best food and knowledge comes into models. And you use these models with old data, with new data and always dynamically learning new stuff and gets the best route and the best optimistic route. And so this is of course, something you would pay for. Because when I hear in a sort of certain time on the weekend, I would really go very fast to that, to that quite a nice place.

And like 10,000 other people who would like to get the same, we know where this ends. And if I get now the best food of all young and be there before the other store, and I'm a, and I'm really able to pay a little bit more money with it. And this model, this very smart models get therefore more valuable. The more data they learned though, this is collaborative in that sense that they use a lot of different sources, use a lot of different systems who felt maybe the data and this model themselves. Now it gets more and more valuable to use us and as well, more valuable to earn money with it.

Of course, in the later, the later sense. So this, because that is just with this one use case here, when you need to go to the next starting stand, you can think of a lot of other very interesting use cases using these techniques, Right? So to anyone watching this podcast, as Peter said, the opportunity is ripe. There are a wide range of ways in which you could, you could contribute on this journey towards digitization by either starting up, or if you're part of a consortia or an organization to basically kickstart an initiative that, that capitalizes on such opportunities.

And my next question would be a follow-up to that, which is so I'm interested in say kick-starting a new initiative in the decentralized space. So if I'm an employee at an organization, what can I do to say, get buy in from senior management? So what can I do to make this a reality services? Yeah. This is what I have to learn the hard way as well. Right? Yeah. You need a lot of adult education, so you need to talk about it all the time. You need to try to explain it, simple words, and it's quite hard. You experienced it in during our talk here. So that's just hard to really explain it. Yeah.

That's the new opportunities are so fantastic. So I sense that several times now some of my top managers were really flashed back to say, well, really?

What, what is that interesting new future? Go for it. Yeah. Do it.

However, only Disney to that, like 3, 4, 5 times. Yeah.

Then, then they got it. So all the time, talk about it, learn, learn yourself how to explain it in an easy way and look, look into the chart in the challenges of course, and in opportunities and try to find easy words to explain them. Right. So simple as that build your storytelling skills and persevering you will be successful. And so say you've launched a project with, within your company. Is there a KPI or a metric that you track to measure success of a certain project? Definitely.

Yeah, of course. There are several ones. Of course. You always have to have the business model in mind. Yeah. When are you getting what milestone? Of course. Yeah. When can you see which when the market is developing, what, when the user is really accepting it and all these different metrics that you have out there, which are already quite known. And I think in the new decentralized systems, you get even more or new metrics here now.

Like how much, what is the network effect is developing like in a decentralized system, how much users do we not only have on one platform, but how much users, for example, can now use the new decentralized systems now maybe alongside decentralized systems and so on, because on the sentence system is quite easy. You are the owner, the more users you have, the better, a decentralized system, it's a little bit different there. You have to look a little bit about the, what are really the advantages to use a decentralized system. Yeah. What is the really advantage to not use the sender?

One more, more abilities or more possibilities now with these other systems compared to the central and so on. And so these are very, very interesting. You will research topics as well. Okay. Right. And what is the area of innovation that Peter Busch is spending most of his time wrestling with at the moment? Really? I think explaining these topics. Yeah. Really convincing people to be open, to understand it and to show them this new possibilities and as well, the risks of not doing these. Yeah.

And going so as we did before, and then look maybe in the more this topic scenarios that we can go to, Right. I hope this podcast was a good platform in a sense, to put your word out to people who might be doubting it and, and to wrap things up, where do you see decentralized identity going in the future?

I see, since we have really this, this promising you community activities, now I think it's, we'll get a broad development, scalable standardized system, at least in Europe, we start with that and I think it will go on worldwide. And in a few years time, you have this new internet of things using these decentralized systems. That's where I see my product there as well, all my services and all that Right. Fingers crossed Peter. Right. It's now time for the best part of the show. This round is called frontier file where I put my guests on the spot with a series of rapid fire questions.

So the question is Peter, are you ready for the challenge? Right. Perfect. Let's go. What's your mantra in life. Never stop learning your sings and practice them a lot. Okay. Describe your take on Bitcoin in one word Revolution. Okay. A book you would recommend to our audience. I read one thing in the last time, which was apart from these technologies, he started materials, fill opponent, very, very new world, a new look on this world. I'll definitely add that to my reading list.

What is the best piece of career or business advice that you've received Again, like the first one, the open phone, you initiatives, and try to convince your managers to go the direction. Okay. Okay. And what's your vision for the economy of things? Project could Bosch Yeah. Building up this EOT, this acronym of things, ecosystems as maybe really an alternative to these existing hyperscale models. Okay. And a person who inspires you and why I'll very specific as well.

My martial arts trainer, who is like in the middle of seventies and still doing like a hundred pushups a day or so. That's incredible. And finally, what's your advice to anyone listening to this podcast Again? Yeah. It can just repeat myself. If you hear about this new stuff, be open, learn about it, learn about it and learn about it and then convince others to do so. Right on that note, Peter, I'd like to thank you for your time and hope that this conversation has given our audience is strong insight on the intersection of IoT and decentralized identity.

I hope to see a lot more of your work coming to fruition and wish you and your team at Bosch. The very best of luck in accelerating the future of mobility.

Thanks, Peter. When you very much, that's trying to do it. That was Peter Busch. Peter will be at the European identity and cloud conference EIC. So be sure to get a tickets. Why the link in the description box below, I hope you enjoyed this conversation that dabble around IOT, the machine economy, mobility, and also looked at how decentralized identity fits into this picture. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to share this with anyone who might find this information useful. And please, please, please list your comments down in the comments section.

Because as I mentioned at the start of the podcast, you know, we explore magic here and we want to get better at this and we can only do so by, by getting your feedback. So please go on and share your thoughts until next time. This is me, Raj Hegde day signing off. And I look forward to seeing you again on another episode of frontier talk, as we redefine the eye in identity, stay safe.