For this panel, by the way, we created a brief poll, feel free to use the app. And we have some questions on how your organization is already using CRM or a CDP, a customer data platform. And I'm really looking forward to have yeah. Chat with you guys about the topic and maybe directly starting with a question. Yeah. How would you define a, a, a cm? How would you define a CDP? There might be overlaps in between the scope of both system that makes it, let's say so exciting. Maybe also different, difficult for many organizations to choose how to go ahead, because we have seen many, many presentations already where we've seen, okay. CRM is the key, let's say to customer journey to use experience. This is of course, a focus of a CDP as well. And actually we are preparing a leadership compass at Ko coal related to customer data, blood firms. And in that yeah, market segment definition, as we call it, we defined to CDP segment as follows, stands for a software collection of software that creates databases that enable the centralized management of customer data. So really the focus on centralized, we have a 360 degree customer. John, how would you see that in this yam?
Well, you know, that's, I think it's a really interesting question. It's an interesting development, but yeah, go into your app. There are, there's a poll question and take the poll if you can, while we're doing this. And then we'll look at the results later, you know, cm and CDP. I thought it was interesting when they sort of developed along parallel lines over the last couple of years, because there's, there's kind of some overlap too. When you think about CRM, you know, customer resource management software. So you've got different kinds of systems that are collecting information about customers and consumers. And I think it's also important to draw the distinction between customer and consumer, you know, and there are B to C what we normally call, you know, the business to consumer business, to customer B, to B, to C, we see the cm platforms, the ID, the full on identity management platforms extending into B to B to C kinds of use cases.
So there's lots of information that can be collected by IM cm, CRM, you know, formerly, well, it's not like CRM has gone away where people are certainly still using CRM, but CDP then has arisen to be sort of the catchall for all of it. And I, I think we can go there in a later question around privacy considerations consent, but yeah, it's interesting to see how over, just the last few years, there's a need for another solution that can consolidate information about customers and consumers for multiple sources and provide like Roland said that 360 degree view.
Yeah, I think, I think, I think you're quite right about that and that you see that the customer data platforms are really about aggregating any type of data. They can find about a known, but also an unknown user and try to, to distinguish and, and to derive a, a user profile about that. Whereas consumer identity management solutions are more focused on the actual identity, bringing that unknown person to a known person, identify the user and then allow them to, to interact with your, in, with your environment. And one of the other things I think is a clear distinction is that the interaction between a CDP versus a cm system is the intent where on the CDP system, it's really about profiling and connecting and collecting a lot of data. And that's both happening intentional, but also unintentional where the user doesn't even know and is not aware about what app what's happening, whereas on the cm system side, you're gonna see that there's a lot more intent because people actively intend to share data, start a signup process and, and interact with the systems they're they want leverage. And, and the CDPs are more on the unintentional side of things, I think,
Fully agree. And earlier this morning, it was in one of the keynotes, there was the term identity and there was a term personality. And I guess if you ever look at those two, let's say flavors of systems, the identity is clearly aligned to CRM world and probably personalities rather aligned to the CDP world. And also, if you look at the say customer journey, we start with an anonymous user, huh? We start somewhere. We have multiple devices more and more. We have T today and step by step at a certain point, we have an identified user. And I guess this is exactly the way where see IM comes into play as well, of course, and even before, but what you also mentioned about, you know, let's say best of breed world, and John, you mentioned that earlier as be, we have still our CRM systems. We have our other tools where we collect information.
And I guess the key challenge is that we have those data silos. We have different departments and I always worked in agencies, marketing agencies. And when you talk to marketing department, 10, 15 years ago, their shop was to create nice images, nice pictures, nice. Let's say flyers and so on. And this is totally changed. And from that point of view, suddenly the, the marketers have to deal with data. And I guess it's important to make it easy for them. And many, many CDPs do that in order to enable data management, that would also a marketer can handle that easily. Yes. That's one topic to make it easy, to have a convenient use case. On the other hand, they have to have a really 360 degree customer where quality focuses rider based on the CDP side, maybe then on the cm side. Nevertheless, I guess those CMS are important sources and important interactors with CDPs.
Yeah. I think, I think you're totally right about that. And I think that also clearly distinct or indicates where the overlap between those type of systems sit because a CDP collects way more data about that individual and about that, that user then a cm system would do. CDP also looks at the transactional relationships that engage with, with that consumer. It looks at purchase histories. It looks at interactions you may have had with a call center agent or, or similar types of interactions, whereas a cm system, it's completely looking at the security layer of that interaction, meaning secure, identify that user authenticating the user and, and, and providing in the appropriate authorizations. And the CDP is, is broader in the sense that it collects far more data to, to really pinpoint that, that user and, and to be able to target that user far more specific than just purely that identity piece.
You know, I think that's a good point too. I mean, I started doing these leadership campuses on cm about six or seven years ago. And at that time, you know, companies in the CIM space were advertising their capabilities around not only being able to grab identity analytics, you know, the login information and failed logins and things that are useful from a, an account security perspective, but also collecting, you know, demographic information on the users and then taking that information and making that available to the marketeers. And since the last three or four years, there's far less of an emphasis on that in cm. In fact, most cm vendors these days are like, well, we'll make all this available through APIs. If you want to dump it into some other program Tablo or one of these customer data platforms, it's like CIM can be a source of information, like, like you said, but this information then is passed over to customer data platforms increasingly for customers to be able to add other sources of data to that, enrich it and get value out of it.
Having a look at personalized customer journey, probably a, a CD is the well, let's say centralized basis to do that. We have, as you mentioned, the cm is one of other sources. We may have further input channels and CMS and CDPs offer the possibility to connect. Let's say to customer journey orchestration, I guess both is possible, but in the CDP case, we have a centralized way in order to gather the data, you have the possibility to create segments, to create segments automatically. I guess that's also an important topic and in many keynotes as well today and yesterday, we heard also that let's say in HR approach is, is key when it comes to a further improvement. And I guess this is really true if it comes to CDP, if it comes to, let's say data driven marketing, because when we begin with using such a system and we begin with a customer journey orchestration, some tools offer that, huh, inside a solution, some offer connectors to customer journey, orchestration a solution. We gather data and we gather data in order to improve our customer experience continuously. And I guess this is something where really the marketers can learn day by day. They can do AB testing. They can let's say check how the business is changing. For instance, particular additional channel. Is there particular IOT device support and so on, I guess this brings a lot of input as a basis for further, let's say planning for the marketers, but also the connected department, because it's not only about marketing it's the whole company is about CDPs. That's my opinion.
Yeah. I think, I think you're right about that. And then the interaction between the CDP and again, the C system would be that as soon as the, the CDP figures out that there's a, a specific need for further identification or getting validated claims, for instance, then the C om system would be the one orchestrating again, that, that, that journey and making sure that the CDP gets that information back so that it can be used again in the profiling for that specific user. And, and, and one of the things that you, that you mentioned also is I think that the target audience for the platforms is slightly different. The S are very much focused on the, the marketing and the, the, the sales driven part of the organization. Whereas the CIM systems are probably more focused around the enabling digital transformation and being able to add some layers of security on top of your, your platforms that you're exposing. And, and that's also slightly different audience with different needs of capabilities that, that are offered by those systems. So I don't think they're gonna bite each other and, and they're gonna be very complimentary to each other in that sense,
Definitely when it comes to the implementation of a CDP, I guess we mentioned that earlier many departments have to, let's say, be part beyond the table, because we might have data sources from whatever silos we have. And I guess that's also one of the challenges of one of the typical challenges, the most stakeholders you have on the table. The higher probably risk is that someone somehow project takes years and years and years. And my opinion is that also here, let's say an HR approach step by step is key, but never forget the vision where you want to be. And in the end you need a, let's say centralized customer, and I guess all departments must contribute here.
At the future, John, sorry. Looking at the future, we mentioned already IOT, things like that, what let's say future perspectives, do you see when it comes to CDP when it comes to IM cm in combination?
Well, I guess I would say there will be further specialization it in a way, it seems to me that CDP is kind of grown out of, or maybe at least parallel to CIM. And with that, the types of capabilities that are present in cm platforms are more about the account security, you know, offering authentication choices, access control, choices, fraud, reduction, choices, and less about storing information about customers. Again, it goes back to it's, it's just becoming a, a data source. So I would, I would then predict that this differentiation between cm and CDP will become, you know, much stronger and, and will probably see partnerships form between cm vendors and CDP vendors over and above what currently exists in terms of like a stacked platform of cm, CDP and, and, and marketing software.
Yeah. I think, I think think the interaction between those two platform types are gonna be, you're gonna see more increase in that. What I do think that that cm systems are also exploring is more the relationship and, and being able to define relationships between the individual identities and being able to not just do the access governance based on that, but also do the, the, the, the sharing of information. And that should be fed back into those CDP systems so that they can also benefit from the knowledge about what the relationship between the individual identities and the individual profiles that they may have is, and, and how to work together. So that, that helps them again, to be better in, in the defining those different markets that they're looking for and, and to be able to, to segmentate their user base. So I think that the CRM systems are gonna evolve slightly more on the, the relationship management again, and, and, and that's gonna benefit the C platforms in the long run when the integration is gonna be more tight than it is as of today,
Having a look at some risks, maybe we should mention that as well, always when it comes to personalization, I guess let's what I always tell the market is we must not overdo it some at a certain stage. It might become scary. So if I have a user experience, which is personalized, where I have recommendations that are a good fit, that might yeah. Be nice, but at a certain point, I guess it might be scary for the users. I guess from that point of view, it's always on one hand important also based on regulations to balance privacy. And the marketing goes on the other hand, also see from a customer journey, from a customer behavior point of view, that's from my point view quite important to do it in a, in a way that fits. And it might become scary if a IOT device that is somewhere installed. My living room has suggestions for me that, well, I was not considering it and say, okay, how do they come to that conclusion?
Yeah, yeah. But I think, I think it all starts with, you know, given we are in Europe, it's all about consented data processing, right? So you need to have a legitimate interest. And for some of the things that you're gonna be processing, even as a CDP, you're gonna need consent. So you need to make sure that you only process that part of the data that the actual user is, is either aware of or understands why you do that. So I think that's a big pre emphasis for, for CDPs to be very successful and not being the creepy types of the big tech that we have quite a bit of an examples of, of what it, it could be if it turns out bad,
Definitely looking at the time we have some results of our survey, and we have actually organizations that have deployed CRM, 36% have deployed CDPs 9%. Both. We have 27%. And considering as IM we have 27% and no one is actually considering a CDP hope, maybe that changes after our panel. So thanks a lot for the moment. I just look whether we have some questions here, actually, there's one question in my opinion, organizations don't need to separate CIM or CDP systems. We could all think of platform, model and work with an example. Amazon has most customer data available. Yeah. Rather an opinion down the question, but thank you very much. Looking at the time, I would say let's directly. Go ahead with our next agenda point and thanks very much for joining water. It was a pleasure to have your screen here and yeah. It's stay in touch. Thanks a lot.
Thank you as well. Bye.