EUDIW – Why Should People Care? [Introductory]

Okay, so thanks for being here. I guess many of you, when traveling, had to show your passport or identity document either when crossing border or checking into a hotel. Who was really excited by finally showing your passport?

Oh, there are some people that are. Yeah, I'm excited by mine, it's quite new. But we are really excited about this, right? We are identity nerds, we think this is the greatest thing since light spread. This is so fantastic. Then I talk to normal people, there are normal people, you know, not identity nerds, but normal people, it's interesting to talk to them and try to explain, you know, what this is about.

And it's, you know, what is this? This is, you know, we have something to do about the storytelling. And what is all this about?

Well, this was, you can see, before my beard and some years ago, but it's proving the point, right? Letting into a forum, thanks for letting me join. And then the answer is prove it. That's the essence of what we're trying to do with the identity wallet, we're trying to prove something. And not necessarily identity, in most cases, the actual identity is not so interesting, but something about it. I'm allowed to drive, I can travel, I have access to healthcare, I can access my bank, buy alcohol, accessing social media is very relevant these days.

Discounted transport without revealing whether that's because I'm over a certain age or have a medical condition, or education. Or it could be to prove that I have some qualifications, that I'm a pilot, I'm a lawyer, you know, have some qualifications that are important. Remember this movie, Catch Me If You Can? It's quite an interesting movie about identity fraud, actually. This main character in the movie, he posed as an airline pilot, as a doctor, as a lawyer, and he did not have any qualification in any of this. And this is pretty scary, right? This was a movie from the 70s.

And this is not a problem anymore, right? Or is it? I came across this one first surfaced in 21, and then surfaced again, late last year.

Doctor, that was not a doctor, he was performing surgery, he had lost his license in Norway. And then he was still operating here in Germany. So be careful if you see this guy. It's still a real problem that people don't have the qualifications. And I'm flying out this afternoon. So I did not like this story, that there are pilots out there that are not qualified. These are hopefully things that we can solve with the identity wallet.

Hi, this is John Eric. Hi, John Eric. This is Harvey from Boulder Bank. How are you today?

Oh, hi, Harvey. I'm good. What can I do for you? There's an ongoing attack on your bank account.

First, I need to verify that you are really John Eric. Can you please respond to the bank ID request I just sent?

Yeah, sure. I can do that.

But first, I'd like you to identify who you are. That's the problem, right? Bank ID in Norway, it's a one-way thing. It's me identifying towards the bank. There's no way for me to verify. And this is how a lot of fraud happens. This is 11 labs, by the way, that can do artificial text-to-voice with any voice. So as said, bank ID or any eID today is a one-way verification.

Hopefully, then, we can use the wallet for a two-way verification. The only company now I'm in touch with that actually has two-way verification is my security company. Whoever calls first gives their code word, and then the other says their code word. And this doesn't really scale at all, but that's the only company that actually identifies themselves towards me.

Okay, so these were some use cases. But I was interested in what makes people adopt new technology? What does it take for someone to adopt technology?

Well, the perceived value or usefulness is important. I mean, GPS, people jumped on that one. I guess most of us haven't opened a physical map in 20 years, maybe more. This was really useful. People adopted that almost immediately. Every car has that now. So the value usefulness. Simplification, contactless payments.

I mean, I pay everything with my Apple Watch now. Click, click, beep, done. Nothing beats that simplification. That's the reason why people are adopting it.

Kindle, very good example. It's compatible with existing habits. I was reading books already, but then, wow, I can get access to all these books immediately and read it on an e-paper and get the same experience. Really good example of compatibility with existing habits. Social influence, WhatsApp, and a lot of things in there as well.

I mean, other people are using it. Hey, I have to use it as well. It's used to communicate.

Trust, credibility. I'm listing here. I come from Norway, so I'm listing the bank IDs in the Nordics. But we have, you know, the instant payment schemes as well. They provide trust. They provide trust. People use it because they trust it. Curiosity.

I mean, nobody has hit the curves as fast as these guys with the number of users in the shortest time. People are using it. They're curious, maybe too curious, because we're getting all these crazy answers from this as well. But it's interesting that also what makes people, and I'm definitely in that part. Pyramising out. Anybody remember Second Life? Or Clubhouse? Clubhouse was short-lived. I still have my Second Life account. I had to test it out when I made this presentation. So it's still there. A lot of big organizations had conferences.

I've been to a conference by Oracle, I think, in Second Life. I gave my little avatar. I walk into the room and sit down and so on, and it was pretty cool. But Second Life was actually one of the very good examples of identity problems in the virtual space. There were impersonations. There were financial fraud. Corporate credibility. You couldn't prove that you actually worked for a company. Back to the proof problem. There were IP theft there as well for virtual goods.

And also the lack of age verification because there were also, of course, adult areas in there where you can go and have all kinds of adult fun in Second Life. But it was actually a very good example of all the identity problems we are facing today in the virtual world. Pressure.

Well, if I'm going to book a doctor's appointment or I'm going to check my prescription, I have to use an EID. I have to use either bank ID or bypass to go in. I don't have any option. This is also one of the ways bank ID actually started to take off. It started off with banks, but then they offered bank ID as a way for all students to sign up for their student loan. There was no other way to get your student loan. So it was very clever. You got all the kids to use it and they are growing up and using it as well. And coolness.

I mean, Apple is playing a lot on the coolness factor. This is really cool. And then my question, I mean, this was some example. I'm sure there are more, but this was some examples. Why do people adopt new technology? Which of these apply to the identity wallet?

I mean, I don't have the answer, but I think it's worth thinking about. I mean, we are working on use cases. Are they useful, the use cases? Boarding passes, got that. Driver's license, got that. So does it simplify things?

Well, meant to be seen. Is it compatible with my habits?

Well, if I'm already using one of the Apple, Google wallets, maybe. Social influence?

Well, if we could get that there, it would be really cool. Wow. You really have to have this because this is so great. Trust?

Well, that's a big issue. There's a lot of distrust. Curiosity?

Well, they're always curious people that will jump on this, obviously. And fear of missing out? I don't know. Pressure?

Well, if there are places where you have to use it, but I mean, we're not there because it's not mandated. And is it cool? There was a joke. Was that on the Copenhagen call two years ago, somebody introduced the concept of a Gucci identity wallet. That would be sort of the cool factor of it.

Anyway, I was at an identity wallet conference in Norway earlier this year, where they actually demonstrated a real life use case. Normally you have to be over 16 to buy energy drinks. So they had issued a wallet to Ingrid and she was using that in the store to prove her age. And a picture came up with a green square around to use that.

Well, I mean, seems stupid, but maybe for kids, it's a good use case to be able to do that. And if you could do payment in the same time, that could be a really excellent way of doing it. Personally, with the amount of travel I do, I would like to have all these travel apps in one. I did remember that the one to use here in Berlin is the BVG app. But I mean, for a lot of the apps, that's not obvious at all, that you have to use like the NS app to travel with chain in the Netherlands, or you have to use the router app to travel in Oslo. This would be a great simplification.

And also one of my pain points, I do not understand when checking into a hotel, why do I feel I'm applying for citizenship? Why do I have to go through all this and show my credit cards and prove who I am and sign the document that says I'm not going to destroy the room and all this stuff? I feel I do it every single time. Why does hotel checking take so long? And I received the key, maybe I received some voucher and stuff. So of course, it's nice to talk to that person and get some appreciation. But this could be simplified. This could be one interaction with a wallet.

I share the relevant information, GDPR consent and vehicle registration, whatnot, everything in one. And then I get all the stuff back that I need, the keys and the vouchers, etc. Face-to-face verification, back to the doctor, lawyer, etc, that you can prove who you are.

This, excuse me, screenshot is from Freyja, the Swedish one, which actually do that. So you can do a face-to-face verification with Freyja. Then what I've talked about before is the form factor of the wallet. So my perfect wallet looks like this. It's just not there. It's invisible. I don't want it in my face. It should only appear when I really need it. People don't care about the wallet like they don't care about the passport.

Also, I'm concerned that we're talking so much about the wallet as an app on the phone and only an app on the phone. And I do understand why it's like that. But I'm in a world where I have multiple devices and I pick them up at different times. I want to access my wallet, obviously, from my phone, but from my laptop, from my car, from my watch, from my Apple TV. And in a disaster, let's say I'm out traveling and everything is stolen, my devices, everything.

I'd like to be able to go into a kiosk somewhere and be able to access my wallet to prove who I am, maybe get some money, get some insurance payback so I can continue my life. So I think we need to look at it more broader than an app on a phone. The app on the phone is a good front end, but that must not be the only place to access the wallet. And I saw this initiative, the VV Wallet, which is challenging that aspect by having a web-based wallet. And I think this is an interesting way to look at this. I just created this one, added a couple of credentials, and it's available for testing.

Also, and I've said this so many times before, I hate the term wallet because it looks like a passive storage. I want an intelligent wallet that can do all kinds of cool things for me, protect me against my own stupidity.

Hey, John Eric, don't share that data with this company, etc. And maybe handle my GDR, GDBR consents, etc.

Okay, are people ready? I got some research from the EIDIS project in the University of Milan. They've done some survey and asking about that, and they placed people in four different groups. And we see quite different here in the four countries there. They say identity addicted, you have at least one EID and you use it at least once per week.

I mean, personally, I'm probably going to be way over here. I think I have three or four EIDs and I use them daily. And it's so different in different countries, right? And we also see the numbers are very different on the list here, how addicted or how much people use identity. And also identity versus the bond that are not using it at all. And from an identity wallet perspective, we need to have a very different story to these different kinds of people to make them use it. Part of the research also asking, what do you think about the wallet? Are you ready for a wallet?

Or are you opposed to the wallet? And it's interesting, like Germany, 35% are wallet averse. And how do you do the messaging? How do you get these people aboard to do that? Also interesting, this was from Andy Tobin, 2024. I think it's still relevant. He was asking for different perspectives around the world about the wallet. Sweden said, what about the people that want or can't use the wallet? What about inclusion then? The Greece said, oh, I'm going to be a modern citizen. The Dutch is worried about government outreach.

And Sweden said, well, and I said the same thing, a bank ID, why do I need a wallet? And then some concerns, of course, about the risks, risks of leaking data. And also the last one, single point of failure. And we're seeing that already because in Norway, some people are dependent on bank ID for logging into their work account. So when bank ID is gone, and that happens from time to time, it goes down, they can't even log in. So of course, we need to take this serious, but this last one is also my point of not having only the phone, I need to have multiple ways to accessing the wallet data.

So we want to create some excitement. We want people to be excited about the wallet. Do they get excited about all the technical buzzwords we are using? One set of credentials, and we can use them multiple times. Proving you're over 18.

I mean, we're not buying, we're not creating the wallet to buy beer and watch porn. That's not why we're creating it. Prove who you are. I have ID card, people are not concerned that the person can see more. Log in across EU, limited disclosure. Yeah.

I mean, people are sharing everything on Facebook anyway, so why should they care? We need to simplify the world, give them some benefits, and introduce some fun. Could we add some fun factor to make it fun to use the wallet?

I mean, gamification is an interesting concept that could be, and it needs to be perceived as a safe place to share your information. That was the end of my presentation. Thank you.