WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:19.000 Welcome to the KuppingerCole Analyst Chat. I'm your host. My name is Matthias Reinwarth. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:24.000 I'm analyst and advisor with KuppingerCole Analysts. This is the second episode in a 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:32.000 series of views back on EIC. And for this episode, I have invited Patrick Teichmann, 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:34.900 who has not yet been a guest here on the show. 00:00:34.900 --> 00:00:37.800 So first of all, a short introduction, Patrick 00:00:37.800 --> 00:00:39.733 Teichmann. He is lead advisor with 00:00:39.733 --> 00:00:43.200 KuppingerCole, joined some months ago, but is in the business 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:46.400 for 10 years or so. Hi, Patrick. Good to have you. 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:49.500 Hi, Matthias. Thanks for having me. 00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:53.800 Great to have you. These episodes that we're just currently doing is Matthias is asking 00:00:53.800 --> 00:01:02.400 the same questions to different participants, attendees from KuppingerCole's side at EIC 00:01:02.400 --> 00:01:09.400 in Berlin. And it was your first EIC, so you had lots of surprises, of course. But as you 00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:14.900 are an experienced, I am lead advisor from start away here at KuppingerCole. Starting 00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:20.400 with the topic perspective or general focus, what was your personal key topic or focus 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:23.300 during EIC and why? Why did it stand out? 00:01:23.300 --> 00:01:27.400 I think there were like two topics which were pretty much interesting for me. So as 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:32.400 you might have heard, SAP Identity Management, with which I started around 10 years ago, 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:37.900 is coming to an end. And of course, I was interested a lot in how the transition is 00:01:37.900 --> 00:01:42.200 working, where the customers are and what this means to the community. So what all the 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:48.600 viewpoints are. So I will be also joining the DSAG Congress end of the year to talk 00:01:48.600 --> 00:01:53.800 about this topic. And this was very interesting and outstanding to see where the different 00:01:53.800 --> 00:02:00.300 companies, the different institutions are at the moment. The other thing was the NHI 00:02:00.300 --> 00:02:05.300 perspective or topic, non-human identities. So when we are now like have worked a lot 00:02:05.300 --> 00:02:10.600 of around human identities and when I was starting, we were still talking about technical 00:02:10.600 --> 00:02:12.791 users that sounded like robots doing 00:02:12.791 --> 00:02:16.200 something. We are now talking about non-human identities 00:02:16.300 --> 00:02:24.700 and yeah, also what it means for AI. What is our view as IAM community on the AI topic, 00:02:24.700 --> 00:02:29.700 bringing another flavor into this topic. And this was pretty much interesting or a lot 00:02:29.700 --> 00:02:33.000 of new insights I gained here and that was interesting to me. 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.011 Right. And as you actually mentioned, 00:02:35.011 --> 00:02:38.000 especially the NHI topic or the combination, especially 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:41.000 of agentic AI plus NHI, when you have systems 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:44.200 acting on their own behalf, acting autonomously, 00:02:44.200 --> 00:02:49.900 that's really something that was one of the key topics at EIC. And I also covered 00:02:49.900 --> 00:02:55.200 that partially. So it's really an interesting topic. Was there something, some speakers, 00:02:55.200 --> 00:02:59.900 some tracks that you watched that were most thought provoking that you really took home 00:02:59.900 --> 00:03:03.800 and some food for thought or engaging and why? 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:06.950 Yeah, that was when Yves and Mike were talking 00:03:06.950 --> 00:03:10.100 about the death and the digital estate working 00:03:10.100 --> 00:03:15.300 group, at least their perspective on this topic, so-called data, and having a panel 00:03:15.300 --> 00:03:20.800 about this. And that was a talk about what progress they made over the last year. And 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:26.900 it was like the, yeah, not so comforting topic about the death and what it means to your 00:03:26.900 --> 00:03:30.813 digital estate. So we all know about the real 00:03:30.813 --> 00:03:34.900 estate, but we were, or the term of the digital 00:03:34.900 --> 00:03:40.000 estate is pretty new. And yeah, what it means to your identity if you die, for example. 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:45.400 And we were also experiencing in this panel about the grief bots that you might have heard 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:52.500 of, the alive people train bots to be there after they die. And we were also discussing 00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:58.100 what happens if you delegate some of the things you are doing as a youth now to this grief 00:03:58.100 --> 00:04:00.139 bot, for example. And that was really 00:04:00.139 --> 00:04:03.500 interesting. Of course, it also gave you a bit of goosebumps, 00:04:03.500 --> 00:04:09.300 but at the end it was very interesting and yeah, really brought us in the direction to 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:15.000 think also what this means to us, to us as an individual, but also of course to companies 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:19.700 with your digital identities being spread over various providers. 00:04:19.700 --> 00:04:24.000 Right. I think it really is, it's a European, it's a German problem because we don't talk 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.522 about these topics usually. But nevertheless, 00:04:26.522 --> 00:04:29.100 if you are inheriting because a relative dies, 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:34.300 you're inheriting pictures, I don't know, have inherited some kind of sheet music that 00:04:34.300 --> 00:04:39.200 somebody composed, what happens with that? I'm not entitled to understand even what that 00:04:39.200 --> 00:04:46.300 means. And the more you can actually think ahead before the event of no longer living, 00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:52.600 then that's helpful. And I think that we need to adapt and to get used to that as well. 00:04:52.600 --> 00:05:00.000 It's an interesting topic, but as you said, not that comfortable. But from your personal 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.918 perspective, it was your first EIC, but I know 00:05:02.918 --> 00:05:05.900 that you were pretty active at EIC. So what did 00:05:05.900 --> 00:05:08.576 you do? What did you focus on? What did you 00:05:08.576 --> 00:05:11.500 talk about? Yes. On the first day, I started to 00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:14.480 moderate a track together with Alejandro Leal from 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:17.400 our research team. That was very interesting. And 00:05:20.400 --> 00:05:28.000 starting slowly into the EIC, working there to work with the people there. But yeah, 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:34.600 then I had the pleasure to moderate a track on my own, also to moderate the panels. 00:05:35.700 --> 00:05:44.700 On Thursday, I was doing the EIC morning run with some participants where we were around 00:05:44.700 --> 00:05:48.574 like 40 participants joining the morning run 00:05:48.574 --> 00:05:52.800 to start really fresh into the third day of EIC. 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:55.322 And therefore, that was also quite nice. 00:05:55.322 --> 00:05:58.600 Guided with my colleague, Celine, the people through 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:02.795 Berlin, we ran onto the Brandenburger Turm. And 00:06:02.795 --> 00:06:06.900 that was pretty nice as it started to the day. 00:06:06.900 --> 00:06:09.542 And then on Friday, I had the pleasure to 00:06:09.542 --> 00:06:12.700 give my own talk in terms of identity federation, 00:06:12.700 --> 00:06:16.600 like federating between two organizations and how 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:20.500 you should not just look at the tool as we in the 00:06:20.500 --> 00:06:23.067 IAM community sometimes tend to do or 00:06:23.067 --> 00:06:27.300 organizations tend to do, but also to look at the other parts 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:34.300 like people, processes, policies behind IAM and where you integrate with each other. Very, 00:06:34.300 --> 00:06:36.900 very interesting. I think important topic. It's 00:06:36.900 --> 00:06:39.500 about trust, about ensuring trust, about making 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:42.074 sure that you actually understand what the 00:06:42.074 --> 00:06:45.200 other organization is doing, that you are consuming 00:06:45.200 --> 00:06:47.423 identities from that. That is really an important 00:06:47.423 --> 00:06:49.600 topic. Of course, the most important question in 00:06:49.700 --> 00:06:53.150 this series of podcast episodes is, was there 00:06:53.150 --> 00:06:56.600 something, a moment during the event that was 00:06:56.600 --> 00:07:03.000 unexpected, funny, engaging, energizing to you? You can give more than one answer. 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:07.169 I'm pretty sure it's energizing, of course, the 00:07:07.169 --> 00:07:10.500 Thursday morning entity that we are not a community 00:07:10.500 --> 00:07:13.274 that just like to stay within the hall, but 00:07:13.274 --> 00:07:16.500 people also love to run there. And that was pretty 00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:19.450 energizing, I would say. Although my knees hurt 00:07:19.450 --> 00:07:22.400 a bit afterwards from the streets, but that was 00:07:22.400 --> 00:07:25.078 quite okay and something I could live with. And 00:07:25.078 --> 00:07:27.700 the thing is what was very heartwarming for me 00:07:27.700 --> 00:07:31.221 that I saw so many familiar faces from my 00:07:31.221 --> 00:07:35.600 career so far that I can reconnect with, that I can 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:38.635 exchange ideas with, and also like to see what 00:07:38.635 --> 00:07:42.000 has happened in the meantime, since we met the last 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.700 time. That was, I guess, very heartwarming, as I 00:07:45.700 --> 00:07:49.400 said, and also very refreshing to exchange ideas 00:07:49.400 --> 00:07:53.086 and also see the progress that some made in 00:07:53.086 --> 00:07:57.200 terms of their IM stuff. Yeah, that's mostly it. 00:07:57.200 --> 00:07:59.879 Yeah, I think one thing that I want to go back 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:02.500 to, because the events team is really doing a 00:08:02.500 --> 00:08:04.626 brilliant job in preparing all of this. But 00:08:04.626 --> 00:08:07.000 nevertheless, there is something that you cannot 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.644 prepare for, for example, if there is a no-show 00:08:09.644 --> 00:08:12.400 when a speaker does not show up. And I think that 00:08:12.400 --> 00:08:15.796 happened to you, right? Also, yeah, that's 00:08:15.796 --> 00:08:20.000 right. Sometimes, unexpectedly, people get sick, for 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:22.650 example, or whatever, and then you have to jump 00:08:22.650 --> 00:08:25.300 in, have to extend your talk, or have to extend 00:08:25.300 --> 00:08:28.091 your panel. And the thing is, there are so many 00:08:28.091 --> 00:08:31.000 people who are willing to jump in and are willing 00:08:31.100 --> 00:08:34.077 to share their experience, their ideas. And 00:08:34.077 --> 00:08:37.400 that was really nice to see that we were able to 00:08:37.400 --> 00:08:40.936 show short notice, like we were 40 minutes before 00:08:40.936 --> 00:08:44.400 we were not certain about the show up, or if the 00:08:44.400 --> 00:08:47.532 person shows up. And therefore, it was quite nice 00:08:47.532 --> 00:08:50.600 that others jumped in and were willing to really 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:53.348 get into a chat and do the panel with me. 00:08:53.348 --> 00:08:56.700 Great. And I think these are the most challenging, 00:08:56.700 --> 00:08:59.245 also the most exciting parts. But as you said, 00:08:59.245 --> 00:09:01.900 when you realize that this is really a community 00:09:01.900 --> 00:09:07.300 working together, also trying to deliver and supporting and delivering really brilliant 00:09:07.300 --> 00:09:14.300 results, that's, for me, also one of the most important parts of EIC. It was my 10th EIC, 00:09:14.300 --> 00:09:16.750 and learning that they are really working together 00:09:16.750 --> 00:09:19.200 and contributing, and everybody wants to make this 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:26.000 the best event ever. And it was, of course. For those who haven't had a chance to 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:32.600 dig into EIC or to be part of that, maybe being on vacation, or I don't know, 00:09:33.800 --> 00:09:36.273 there are not too many good reasons to not be 00:09:36.273 --> 00:09:38.800 there. But if they are or have not been there, 00:09:38.800 --> 00:09:41.600 anything that you could recommend to start with? 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:44.400 One thing that is a must-see that you would like 00:09:44.400 --> 00:09:49.800 to recommend for those who want to catch up with the event? Yeah, I would recommend. So, 00:09:49.800 --> 00:09:54.100 for example, one thing that we as IAM enthusiasts 00:09:54.100 --> 00:09:58.400 try to, or what sometimes happens, that we dig so 00:09:58.400 --> 00:10:03.500 deep in our area that we are not able to really transmit the message that we should to our 00:10:03.500 --> 00:10:08.900 management when we are an organization. So, I can recommend the keynote from my colleague, 00:10:08.900 --> 00:10:12.114 Philip Messerschmidt, which is addressing how 00:10:12.114 --> 00:10:15.400 you should address your management and how you 00:10:15.400 --> 00:10:17.738 convince them about the importance of IAM, 00:10:17.738 --> 00:10:20.800 because there are different drivers for each management 00:10:20.800 --> 00:10:23.650 representative. And also, the other thing about, 00:10:23.650 --> 00:10:26.500 as I said already, about the DEF and the Digital 00:10:26.500 --> 00:10:29.863 Estate Panel, this is really helping to shift 00:10:29.863 --> 00:10:33.300 your view, but it's sometimes needed, to where 00:10:33.300 --> 00:10:36.433 identity is now going to, in which direction it 00:10:36.433 --> 00:10:39.500 comes, to a point where it is really impacting 00:10:39.500 --> 00:10:45.000 everyone. And I hope this is something we are able to transmit in the community and also 00:10:45.700 --> 00:10:52.700 is going to sharp the idea we have at the organization that it will be sooner or later 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:55.382 impact everyone and therefore really should 00:10:55.382 --> 00:10:58.500 reflect about the challenges that come from there. 00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:00.749 Right. It has reached our daily life. If you 00:11:00.749 --> 00:11:03.100 look at what something that we in Germany call 00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:06.350 the elektronische Patientenakte, where you already 00:11:06.350 --> 00:11:09.300 have an identity and where you have access to your 00:11:09.300 --> 00:11:12.250 own data and need to authenticate and have the 00:11:12.250 --> 00:11:15.200 access to authorize access to your systems, to 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:18.350 your data, to your medical records. That is an 00:11:18.350 --> 00:11:21.500 example. Of course, the full EUDI Wallet topic 00:11:21.500 --> 00:11:24.764 will reach more or less very quickly. It will 00:11:24.764 --> 00:11:28.100 reach all of us. So, you've made it. So, we're 00:11:28.100 --> 00:11:30.029 through this podcast episode. Before we close 00:11:30.029 --> 00:11:32.000 down, and I'm really looking forward to having 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.550 you in other episodes as well, because I know you 00:11:34.550 --> 00:11:37.100 are an expert. Any final thoughts, final thoughts 00:11:37.100 --> 00:11:42.700 regarding EIC that you would like to mention? Some famous last words before we close down? 00:11:42.700 --> 00:11:45.038 No matter where you are in your IAM journey, 00:11:45.038 --> 00:11:47.800 this is the plate where you find the right people to 00:11:47.800 --> 00:11:51.030 connect. Wherever you are, if you are starting 00:11:51.030 --> 00:11:54.400 IAM or just with it, or are you already thinking 00:11:54.400 --> 00:11:57.215 about decentralized identity, you find the 00:11:57.215 --> 00:12:00.700 right people. And this is really what I love already 00:12:00.700 --> 00:12:03.965 about this event. Right. I have to add this. My 00:12:03.965 --> 00:12:07.300 standard saying here is, if I was not made to go 00:12:07.300 --> 00:12:10.050 there, because I work for Copenhagen, I would 00:12:10.050 --> 00:12:12.800 love to go there. That's really the important 00:12:12.800 --> 00:12:15.250 part about EIC. It sounds a bit fishy, because 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:17.700 what else should he say, but it's really true. 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:20.600 It's kind of class reunion of the IAM community. 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:23.500 It's really great. Thank you very much, Patrick, 00:12:23.500 --> 00:12:25.993 for being my guest today. Looking forward to 00:12:25.993 --> 00:12:28.600 having you soon again. And that was the second 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:34.100 episode in this three-episode series of looking back at EIC from different perspectives. 00:12:34.100 --> 00:12:36.900 Thank you very much, Patrick. Thank you, Matthias.