Christian Goy - Data Privacy: Who Actually Cares and Why

Sure of hands. If you would have coffee tomorrow, just imagine I'm inviting you for coffee. How many of you would give me your birthday?

Oh, okay. That's nice.

Two, three. Thank you. Your phone number one. Two. Okay.

Yes, your mother's maiden name. Okay. That's kind of weird. I know where, where we were born.

Yeah, few. If you would give me access to your Facebook account, like your handle, anyone you wouldn't even give me access to your Facebook account, who would give me their Instagram handle that I can follow you two, three. Okay. These are not weird questions by the way. You'll see. In a second why, and especially of those folks who have raised their hand and the folks who haven't raised their hand data privacy, who actually cares.

We did a study in the UK, a pilot study, and I really wanna preference this as a pilot study and what we have found 65% of young adults in the UK actually do care about their privacy. It sounds weird, but it's true. There's similar number holds true in America. There's slightly lower. There's also slightly difference between men and women. Women are actually a little bit more concerned than men. The number goes up as we, oh, the number goes up as we look at baby boomers where it's 78, it goes actually even further higher after we look at folks who are 65 in the bar, right.

And although we do care over privacy, how do we really rationalize privacy? What does it mean to us? What do we expect from companies about our own privacy? Why do we care in the next 50 minutes or so hopefully we find some questions I would like to give you kind of an understanding of how we humans, how we, every single day make decisions, right? I will provide you with three simple but paramount principles that will hopefully elucidate how we think about things, how we make the decision, how we visualize the components of privacy in our own own lives every day.

How many of you have a smart watch? A fitness tracker?

Great, wonderful. So when you guys made the decision, we actually use the first printers that we humans are defined to use multiple factors, right? We use social, cognitive, economical, environmental factors to make a decision it's based on the principle of behavioral economics, which teaches it as that we use economic and psychological component determine how much money we're willing to pay for something or how we decide between product a or product B. We also decide whether the thing we are purchasing, fulfill our expectations, right?

In this case, a watch, you know, we all probably thought about the design, you know, the health functionality, the activity, functionally, is it waterproof? Is it not waterproof? Can I take it for a run? Is it dust proof? We thought about the price we probably thought about, well, how does it look on me? How do other people think about me wearing that very expensive watch? And we might even thought about data privacy, right? And what we doing is we evaluate these factors, these psychological economical factors.

And not only do we do that, we also, for each factor, we have a utility expectation, an expectation that's defined of how we expect the price to be the functionality, the design. And not only do we have these expectation, our head, we also put them in a very specific order. That's relevant to us, right? Sure. Hands who had a phone, a smartwatch, what's your name? GE Jeff. Jeff. Jeff.

Jeff, Jeff might start with, well, it's all a bit designed and the functionality of the health function and the sports function. And then maybe he cares about price where I'm all about price, like the cheaper, the better, right. And then maybe design maybe than the functionality and so on. And what we do is we evaluate these choices against the patterns that we have in our mind. And when we pick in the end a product, we hope that will satisfy our expectation on all these factors we're using and especially in the order than the end, right? So this might, there's a side missing, nevermind.

But what we do is we evaluate them and hopefully it sits somewhere and it's relevant. While my decision process privacy was further downstream, right? We will talk about this later, but privacy will move actually up as we continue this conversation and more people can aware about privacy. So we did a study. And what we found is that multiple factors play a role.

Well, in this case, these eight factors, we found play a role in how we perceive privacy. So we talk about what I get from sharing my data, impact on me, sharing my data, how my data is used to security of my data, private policy, and so forth. So these are the eight factors they use all together, right? The second principle of how we make decisions, which is rather interesting, not that we only use multiple factors. We also use them differently. We as use S are not one dimensional.

If it would be one dimensional, we all will drive the same cost, pay the same price for the product, but we are not. We are rather in irrational human beings on the outside world for us. It's absolutely irrational that I drive a Porsche Boxter and I actually buy it trader Joe's. I don't buy actually I don't have a Porsche. I wish I had one, but take, for example, Mina and me Nissan who identical twins from the periphery they're look rather the same, right? Same demographics, same similar jobs, same hobbies. But the way they think about privacy is different.

Mina, for example, uses that simplified psychological process, how she thinks about privacy, whether the thing is fulfilling, my expectation they're utilizing, right. She bought a apple watch, right? And she's now thinking about, does the apple watch, does apple actually satisfy my decision process about privacy? Right? She starts with security of data, how my data is used, what I get from an and so on and so forth. And she also used the same process for linking up with her Facebook account and her Instagram account and her Snapchat account. Right.

And though Mina thinks in one way, me son thinks about it in a whole different way. She has a different utility expectation of what needs to be fulfilled for her to feel secure. Right. She starts with the privacy policy security of my data and so on and so forth. Right? So what we know is we use multiple factors to make a decision, multiple components. We assume it's use them differently. So they have different meaning to us, different expectation. And the last point I wanna make the principle is that in order to create trust, a lot of companies come to and say, how do we create trust? Right?

Because trust is important. I don't have trust. You probably won't work with me. You want probably go for coffee with me. You probably don't give me your birthday. Right? How do we create that trust In order to create that trust three things simple, but paramount things need to happen. I need to see myself in the brand or on a service, the service or brand needs to reciprocate it. And the service or brand needs to continue the relationship throughout. And what we mean by that is, for example, in Mina's case, I need to see myself and the brand, not from a peripheral point of view.

I need to see that you first and foremost can fulfill my understanding about it's my data secure. And somehow you need to reciprocate to me.

Yes, your data is secure because it's evolved somewhere somehow. And if you do that, I'm going further downstream to analyze well, do you have also continuously reciprocating all these other points, hopefully on power of my expectation, but hopefully exceeding my expectation to go a little bit further. Has anyone read from you thinking fast and slow by Cooman 1, 2, 3 Fascinating book. He talks about that. We as human beings use two system, a fast system and a slow system. The first fast system is kind of an emotional irrational behavior and a slower system is more rational.

So when we go through the world, actually what we do is he claims we only do the fast thing. And then we go into more rationalization. Reality is we actually do both at the same time, whether we are aware of it or not, right. What we do.

However, use this primary driver here to cut through the noise. That's out there to find a signal that you can give me what I want and that's what I do, right? That's why we actually go online. When we search, we are looking for that. Can you fulfill my primary need? And if I find this thing, then I go through a more rational, more deliberate approach of thinking like, can you actually fulfill all these other things? Amina's case what we have found most, all our studies. If you can fulfill the first three, four drivers, you go the last and the remaining ones are kind of irrelevant to me.

So if you can do this and fulfill them, be like, yes, I love you right? In our world. We also can measure how a product or service or person can fulfill my expectation on the factors they're using the way they're using them in. And the study we did in the UK, we actually measured how Facebook, Snapchat, and other social sites that mins using is satisfying. Her perception about privacy and the number ranges from a hundred.

My God, I love you to minus on it. Am I gonna hate you? Okay. Which means if I give you a hundred, you fulfill all my expectation on all these factors. Superly right. There's certain weights in it and all these things, but happy to discuss this on the offsite, don't wanna boy, you with a methodology and data science. But what we found, she gives Facebook a 37, which is okay, right.

Me son, on the other hand, also different decision process uses Facebook. She gives her a minus 13. Those numbers are slightly different for Snapchat, by the way, it goes up to 45 and five. But what this means to us is Mina would actually share her health data on Facebook. She actually would say, you know what?

Yeah, I will share it with all my friends. Be Misa would not, because she doesn't think that this company is fulfilling my expectation about it. Why is this relevant? It becomes relevant because in today's world, most people really don't care about privacy. We say we do, but reality, we actually pay stuff off because privacy is just one component. When we make a decision about that apple watch, right? And currently that privacy component probably sits further downstream. How many of you actually thought about few years ago when you first signed up on Facebook about your data? Privacy?

How many of you no way really? I love it. Late adopt.

Ah, okay. Later adopter. Like I came in last year. I have five friends.

Sorry, wait, what's your name? Right. So you actually thought about data. Privacy were a late adopter. You had already an awareness about something is going on, right? What we have seen and you might not believe it or not, but privacy will move upstream. In our decision process. We have seen us in the banking world. We have seen us with other industries and will move up. And as soon as this move up, this becomes extremely relevant. How you perceive whether you can fill my expectation or not, because there's a payoff. So for example, the other day I was on Instagram, love Instagram.

I wasn't early adopt on Instagram. I put a fake picture up there and a weird handle, cuz I didn't want anyone to know who I am. Cuz I was afraid I was been judged by my pictures that I'm taking because they were horrid. But I love to share that I'm, I'm very private. So the only people have access to my friends, which are probably only five people in my girlfriend, but I share all my life and we just get a puppy. I love my puppy. It's a little Terri. And while scrolling through, there's an app pop. So I'm like, oh, oh my God, it's a dog toy.

And with a dog toy, actually the dog can shoot and brush his teeth at the same time. I'm like, oh it's amazing. So I took a picture, screenshot, send it to my girlfriend.

I'm like, look. And she's like, yeah, we have one of those. I'm like really? And she's like, yeah, by the way, how did they know?

I'm like, how did they know what I'm like? Oh, holy shit. How did they know how in the world did I didn't tell him that I have a dog. I didn't sign up that I have a dog not did I mention that I had a dog? How dare you? How dare you? Right? And with this, how dare you? The question comes. Do I leave?

No, I don't leave because I love snooping around, around my friends. And I love sharing my wonderful pictures. That's why I haven't left Facebook because although I don't post on it anymore, all my friends live in Europe and they all share wonderful moments. I wanna be part of it. And I don't really care if Facebook knows where I am. Well I do. But as of now, I'm not moving, but the point will come that I move. So in the end, how do we create a better experience and how do we keep trust? And this is a personal message from your friend, Christian, but also what we see in the data.

And we heard this throughout the day and I hope we will probably hear more about this tomorrow. Be transparent of what you do with my data. This becomes even more paramount as you create more products and services, because you will need us to comply with you and vice versa. Give me choices. I love Google. God. I love Google.

You know, Google is one of these invisible brands, right? If you also like, oh, what's your favorite? Ben? You're like, oh, you know apple and Google comes up because Google does everything so perfectly that it just seamless in the background. And I love when they tell me Christian, by the way, you have to get to the apple now because your plane is leaving X, Y, and Z. But wouldn't it be great if I can tell Google, Hey Google, you can follow me from seven o'clock in the morning till five o'clock in the evening, please then stop.

And by the way, apple watch do not track me while I'm sleeping or making love because it's none of your business, right? Wouldn't it be great. And I think that's where we have to go for because in the end respect my personal information. I think over the last 15 years, we have moved away from our own personal information. And Patrick made a wonderful comment this morning. He opened this slide and I, I know who of you was here this morning, but he started about in the old days, we would walk into a shop and they knew our name.

Well, we would come back to that because in the end we will be back in that shop and we won't be recognized as a person respected to what I give in return. And I will tell you how much I will give you so you can do what you need to do to serve me. So with that being said, thank you so much, rethinking the way we look at privacy. It was a privilege and a pleasure. And now I'm open up a question if there's time. Thank you. We have two minutes. Two minutes. Yes.

So, so it's a good, that will come back to that where privacy far, you know, the whole privacy, all that data handling it in the way that we did not get permission to or were not aware of customer currency to was because it made them a lot of money. That was the whole point. So where is now, will they, will the organizations be willing to cut back from that?

Or, or is there gonna be, are they gonna be ways so that it could be a win-win on both ways? What are your thoughts on that? I'm a capitalist.

You know, we had this discussion in, in, in, in a break room and there will be a shift and it start of its GDPR, right? Which is great. And I love it because somebody said I'm a Marxist while I was growing up in socialism, I was growing up in east Germany where you had to be afraid what he's telling your neighbor, because he might be a security police. But now in, in Europe, people are becoming aware that I actually have access to my data. It's not thrown away. And I hope what will happen is that we will get our back our identity.

And with that identity, I will give you permission to use my information and the way I allow you to use them Facebook, you can know where I am here, but this is none of your business over here. You can share this, but not that. And I hope there's an industry built hopefully soon. It's called consumer tech where I can sell you my data. If you want to have health information about me as a person, I will sell you my data for discount for a running shoe.

So that the consumers going back in this hands and it will happen eventually will happen because somebody will figure it out that actually they can make money by me selling your data. Right? So I think that's hopefully where it's getting, because we have to go back to that. And it's very difficult because the Google's in a Facebook world making a shitload of money on advertising dollars for no reason, an hour dime. So that's just me, somebody from Facebook here, by the way. Another question. Good question. It's it's a really tough one. Yeah.

Oh, sorry. Just a quick note. I saw in there's a news article today. That's John Hancock. John Hancock life insurance has just changed their model. So you have to have a fitness tracker or they won't sell you insurance. They just announced that today. Great. Yeah.

See, and that's, that's how it starts actually. Yeah, yeah. Right. That's how it starts. Who's now owning the data. What A trader John Hancock. There was another question here. I'm sorry. I was somebody raised a hand. Yeah. It's More of a, I guess a statement than a question. You know, I've been working in technology for 15 years and only recently did I get involved with a security related product? And what I found was what did my behavior radically changed? Because I had all this knowledge that I didn't have before about how my information was being used.

So I think a challenge that we face is educating the consumer about how this stuff is being used and the value of it. I think there's a general impression right now that chief, Facebook and Google are making, you know, billions of dollars off this information. But I don't think people understand it any better than that unless they're in the field. Right. I think that's a big challenge. You bring up in a great point and it's behavioral change. Human are notorious to change because they're afraid, right?

Oh, what was it? He's not talking. He's not listening Brian. Yes. Sorry. He was aware of change of privacy. Right? He was reluctant to sign up, but he did sign up. Yeah. Still sign Up, see you sign up. Still sign up, see triggered in God. But behavioral change is difficult. Right. So how do we nudge people to get out of it or request to have it? Unless something really happens to me with my data. I don't really care. Right. So how do we change the behavior?

And that's a whole different experiment and conversation because especially when somebody says, Hey, I request from you to have access to your fitness data. It changes the entire conversation again, because now I'm required if I want to engage with you. And so unless somebody else comes out. One Interesting thing about that too, is that I signed up and, but my sister is push me a happy birthday every year. Facebook it's, it's not only my privacy of my data. It's who you're interacting That. Right without Now I actually know where you live.

Yeah, probably. And where you were born. Right. So yeah. Good question. I'm out of time. Thank you so much. I'm here a bit longer. If you have more questions. Thank you.